Especially for the readers of the portal wPolityce.pl, we are publishing an excerpt from an important interview given by Prime Minister Jarosław Kaczyński to the weekly „Sieci”. For the entire interview with the President of Law and Justice, in which other groundbreaking political declarations are also made, see the latest issue of the weekly „Sieci”.

Michał Karnowski, ‘Sieci’ weekly: The professors, MEPs Zdzisław Krasnodębski and Ryszard Legutko, as well as Jacek Saryusz-Wolski on the pages of the wPolityce.pl portal, state that it is high time for a change of policy towards the EU. They claim that the European Commission uses marked cards in the National Recovery Plan case and that they treat our compromises as weakness. How do you, Prime Minister, view these statements?

PRESIDENT OF LAW AND JUSTICE JAROSŁAW KACZYŃSKI: I said in mid-July the same thing: „Well, enough is enough”. And I sustain my words. We have shown the utmost goodwill, we have made major compromises. It was necessary in order to at least make things clear. And today it has become crystal clear; everyone can see what it is all about, what kind of game is being played.

Of course, we won’t convince everyone, some want to continue in their stupidity and illusions, others are cynically hoping for fortunes to be made from some kind of enslavement of Poland. The operation of a possible change from the zloty to the euro would be an opportunity for speculators who have access to the relevant knowledge to make billions. But the rest should understand and accept that what is being attempted is to take away our freedom and sovereignty and yet to rob us.

To put it in practice, what does ‘enough is enough’ mean today when it is said in the face of the European Commission, which is acting illegally, brazenly violating the EU Treaties and using blackmail? What are the tools and options available to us?

It is my conviction that in this situation we must, first and foremost, protect Polish citizens, take measures to reduce the cost of energy. There is a crisis, there is a war, these are conditions which fully justify taking extreme measures.

Since the European Commission is not fulfilling its obligations with regard to Poland in this area, we have no reason to fulfil our obligations with regard to the European Union. However, these were agreements and arrangements which worked both ways. And this is not about not paying the membership fee, but about other actions and undertakings.

Which are?

We will talk about the details in due course.

What could be the next scenario? The Union will probably wage an all-out battle, impose fines, and try to block money from the main budget.

If I knew that they would give us the major money, I would have a different approach. But I am convinced that in order to break Poland and force it into full submission to Germany, they will block these funds as well. They will find new pretexts. (…)

Let us return to the Union. What are the conclusions?

All these together mean that we no longer have any place to retreat to. We have shown maximum goodwill, we have made compromises, but it is clear that this is not what this is about. If we win, we will have to re-arrange our relations with the European Union. It must not - and will not - be the case that the Union does not recognise treaties, agreements or contracts in relation to Poland. Not even the judgments of the CJEU, which has made it clear that in the case of judges, the appointment by the President ends the subject, even if someone has some doubts.

They have ruled this themselves, and it has changed nothing - Mrs von der Leyen keeps pushing demands that the decision of one judge can be challenged by another. This is something we cannot accept, because it would create total chaos in the Polish state. Perhaps, after all, that is the very purpose of these concerns.

Did the head of the European Commission cheat deliberately? Did she succumb to the pressures?

First of all, analysing Mrs von der Leyen’s motives is not of much interest to me. She was put under pressure, she was threatened with dismissal, the Polish opposition insisted on further conditions. All true, but there was an agreement - honoured on our part, broken on her part.

Will a correction of the political course require staff changes?

A few for sure, but please don’t ask me for any names today. There will be no change of prime minister or government, that is for many reasons impossible at the moment. However, we must draw conclusions. Making concessions hasn’t helped, although we have moved very far, dangerously far in my opinion. We need to recognise this truth and focus on protecting Polish citizens.

Tłum. K.J.