OUR INTERVIEW. Prime Minister Morawiecki for wPolityce.pl: The situation is very dangerous, the overall picture is not good. The time has come for Brussels to draw some conclusions

wPolityce.pl, Michał Karnowski: Prime Minister, during your meetings in Tallinn, Vilnius and Riga you repeatedly said that, unfortunately, the crisis on the eastern border could be prolonged, and that new issues had emerged, such as the possible transportation of migrants from Afghanistan by Minsk and Moscow, as well as Russia’s disturbing actions on the border with Ukraine, which appear to be preparations for larger military actions. Is this likely to result in war? Does Russia want one?

PRIME MINISTER MATEUSZ MORAWIECKI: I hope that it does not want and that there will not be a war, but if we combine all these crises, we see a disturbing picture, the most disturbing one in many, many years.

These are all different risks, but when we look for the causes, all the threads lead to the Kremlin. Belarus, Ukraine, Moldova, gas prices, the potential risk of bringing in migrants from Afghanistan. If you look closely, everything has one origin.

So how serious is the Russian threat to Ukraine?

Even back when Russia occupied the Crimea and when Donetsk and Luhansk were being torn away from Ukraine, there weren’t that many soldiers gathered near the Ukrainian border. This is the information provided by the intelligence services of various countries, so I can also speak more openly about it.

Are these also Polish sources?

Yes, we also have such information. At the same time, we see strong propaganda attacks on the Western world and aggressive hacking attacks, including attacks on energy systems, not only in Poland. Prime ministers of other countries are confirming attacks on their systems as well. This has to be seen as a whole: because at the same time, pro-war propaganda aimed at their own societies by the Russian and Belarusian authorities is increasing.

The aim of Sunday’s offensive was to reaffirm, to make common ground and then, with a strong mandate, to build unity in Western Europe? Is that the way to read it?

Yes. After these talks, I know that we speak with one voice with the Baltic States, we see the risks and the ways to distance them in a similar way. The names, maps and situations are different, but the mechanisms are the same. After very extensive talks with the Prime Ministers of Estonia, Lithuania and Latvia, I can say that we all recognise how serious the situation is.

I am glad that we are on the same wavelength with the Baltic States. The internationalisation of the risks on the eastern flank and attracting its attention to the most important issues, related to security, energy prices, and the correct setting of climate policy throughout the EU, depend on our solidarity and joint action.

Do you think that the scale and gravity of the threats to EU security are also visible to Brussels? At a time when the eastern flank of the EU has to fend off a hybrid war, debates are being held there about issues that are not necessarily important, they still want to grill Poland ambitionally as it resists attacks.

That is an irrefutable fact: Poland is today effectively, with commitment, defending the eastern flank of the European Union, and I think that those who care about the future and security of the Union should draw conclusions from this. There are differences of opinion between us on certain matters, and we see certain subjects differently, such as reform of the justice system, but there are things which are more important than these ambiguities. There are very harsh realities and there is real politics. It is worth concentrating now on the most important matters which are fundamental for the entire Community. It is time for our partners in Brussels to separate what is most important from the divisions that will always exist.

If - and let us hope this never happens - there were a war on or near the EU’s eastern flank, would we still be debating Article 7 of the Treaties? Especially since even our critics have to admit that we have done a lot to explain our point of view, our situation, and the historical complications related to the judiciary. We are also capable of being flexible, of looking for a compromise, although we are also good at defending our arguments. I stress that the situation is dangerous, the risks are growing, and wise, responsible politicians should be able to assess what is most important at such a time.

Many Poles are watching this grilling of Poland as we defend both our national and EU borders, and feel that we are being treated with disloyalty. We are fulfilling our membership obligations wholeheartedly, with pride, efficiency and commitment, while over there in Brussels they are picking on us about everything, for clearly political reasons. Some ideas have been floated: why don’t we let the people sent by Lukashenko go further, to Germany?

Poland will certainly not do this; we are a serious, law-abiding, efficient state which keeps its commitments. I can only add that I hope for an understanding of the serious, growing strategic risks which are occurring around us, around the EU. My interlocutors in the Baltic States have also stressed this. They know that if Poland gives in, the whole community will pay the price. I emphasise: it is getting really dangerous in the East. Now is the time for common sense to prevail in the Union.

Your interlocutors on Sunday were relatively new prime ministers, and all the Baltic states have undergone changes of heads of government over the past several months. But they all stressed the unity that prevails in their countries. It made me sad when I thought of what we are facing in Poland. And what do you think?

I was a little envious. At times I feel that we have to fight this battle to defend the Polish border on two fronts. I wish that Poland had at least some of that unity of the political class on matters fundamental to the state that exists in Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.