PM Viktor Orbán: In this region we know what it’s like when decisions aren’t made in our own capitals

Interesting references to Poland and current situation in European Union are included in an interview given by Hungarian Prime Minister Viktor Orbán to Welt am Sonntag. Here are the excerpts.

Welt am Sonntag: A survey has shown that 77 per cent of Hungarians support stricter supervision of the rule of law, including in relation to corruption. Haven’t you miscalculated on the subject of the veto?

PM Viktor Orbán: Although this seems to be a purely technical detail, it’s actually about the sovereignty of all EU Member States. The rule of law is already defined in the European Treaties. The European Parliament tried to circumvent this in an illegal manner, but Angela Merkel’s proposal for a decision was brilliant: she made it clear that there could only be a new mechanism if it is subordinated to the EU Treaties – and in order to protect the EU’s budgetary interests. In addition, sanctions must first be reviewed by the Court of Justice of the European Union. The citizens of Hungary fully agree with this.

It’s particularly the governments of the former communist states that are accusing Brussels of interference. Why is this?

Our sensitivity to that has historical roots. Hungary was never part of the Soviet Union, it was part of the Soviet empire – together with Poland, the Czech Republic and so on. We know what it’s like when decisions aren’t made in our own capitals. We can see that the European Parliament and some heads of government want to transfer ever more national powers to Brussels. Based on our historical experience, we reject this. We want to be part of a strong alliance of states upholding the treaties.

Are you comparing Brussels to Moscow?

We are close to that. Back in the day, the Central Committee in Moscow used to decide what the ideological line was. Anyone who didn’t follow it was put under pressure. EU Commissioner Věra Jourová wanted to introduce a similar supervisory authority with a rule of law mechanism lacking clear legal definition or objective, universally applicable criteria. By threatening financial sanctions, they want to force Member States to implement ideologically defined policies.

But the text of the rule of law mechanism deals with the separation of powers and the independence of judges: matters that were requirements for EU accession.

All this is part of our Constitution! We completely agree with that. We Hungarians fought for these values thirty-one years ago. This debate with the EU is about family policy, migration policy, cultural issues…

But the agreement doesn’t mention all that…

Then read it again. (laughs) It’s not just us who have come up with this. The first version of the European Parliament’s decision stated that the mechanism could apply to any other subject. We’ve received a lot of documents from Brussels which, for example, state that the rule of law mechanism is also about the admission of refugees. But we don’t want migration. The scope is arbitrarily decided; tomorrow the issue will be family policy.

Your relationship with Manfred Weber was considered a close one up until a year ago. You have now accused the German parliamentary group leader of the conservative European People’s Party [EPP] of considering the Hungarians to be “fools”. When did your relationship go sour?

Manfred Weber visited me in Budapest two years ago. We agreed that I would support him in the election for President of the Commission. Only two days later, Weber openly stated that he didn’t want to become President with the help of Hungarian votes. Everyone here asked what kind of person he could be. Does he think we’re second-class Europeans? The issue wasn’t about me, but about insulting the Hungarian people. We lost trust in him.

A year ago the EPP, which also includes the German CDU, suspended the membership of your party, Fidesz, accusing you of restricting democracy and freedom of the press. Don’t you find this situation unfair?

These accusations don’t concern me; they’re ridiculous. More than half of our media outlets are extremely critical of the Government: all objective studies show that the market share of media outlets which are critical of the Government is above 50 per cent. There is a problem with the EPP: parliamentary group leader Manfred Weber wants to form the same coalition in Brussels as there is in Berlin, where the Christian Democrats govern together with the Social Democrats. But soon it will be impossible to distinguish between conservatives and socialists. We are not leaving the EPP; they are leaving us. That is why I say that the EPP must preserve its Christian democratic character.

Britain will leave the EU at the end of the year. Has Europe made too many mistakes?

Brexit is a disaster. And yes, the European Union has made many mistakes. The problem is that Brussels has ignored the views and needs of the British for years – even when the British opposed the appointment of Jean-Claude Juncker as President of the Commission. The British are rational, they want free markets and reduced government intervention, and they appreciate performance. The withdrawal of the British has tipped Europe out of balance. The European Union has become ever more ideologically-driven: higher taxes, more state intervention, less competitiveness. Germany and France, as influential powers, are making economic policy socialist, with a greater emphasis on redistribution and less on performance and modernisation.

Do you consider Germany to be a leading force in this?

We are experiencing a redistribution of power across the world. Ten years ago the European Union produced 25 per cent of world GDP. Today the figure is barely above 15 per cent. Europe is losing the strength derived from competitiveness. The response from Brussels, however, is not to improve performance and competitiveness, but rather to promote protectionism. We’re protecting ourselves because we’re getting ever weaker, and this is not a good direction to be going in.

In adopting a EUR 750 billion rescue package, the European Union is taking on a historic level of debt. Hungary’s national debt is much lower than Italy’s. Would you like to belong to the “Frugal Four”, who are opposed to sharing the burden of debt?

It would be politically logical. From the beginning we’ve made it clear that we’re critical of the recovery fund. But since many Southern states would collapse without support, we’ve agreed to it out of solidarity.

Source: About Hungary